Ep 55. How to Write Copy That Sells (Faster), with Emelie of Pass the Queso
Nourish Your Brand · Episode 55
Today we're getting into messaging and copywriting with the brilliant Emelie Sanders of Pass the Queso (some people just call her Queso). She's a messaging and sales copy strategist who helps business owners write copy that sells, quickly, without sacrificing conversion.
Whether you love writing or loathe it like I used to, this one's packed with truths and takeaways. Let's get into it.
Figure out your messaging before you write
Emelie's biggest speed lever: figure out your messaging before you write your copy. When you sit down to write an email knowing the topic but not what you're actually saying, you hit walls.
Determining your messaging predetermines what you touch on, so you cut out the mental gymnastics, it can halve your writing time. As she puts it, copy is like dinner: it's not "what's for dinner," it's clean the fridge, make a list, go to the store, defrost the meat, so much leads up to the actual thing. (She nails the parallel: messaging is to copy what brand strategy is to design, the work I always insist on first in Episode 11, and the clarity a Brand Recipe session gives you)
Clear and clever, one at a time
Where people fail is trying to be clear and clever at the same time, two very different skills done in tandem. Emelie's advice: write it "super unsexy" first, just make sure the messaging is there and you're checking the boxes of what you need to say. Then go back, say it aloud in your voice, and layer on your brand personality. (It's exactly foundations before flavour, the order I bang on about in Episode 30, and finding that voice is what my free Knead a Theme challenge helps with)
Define what "quality" means
Emelie pushes back on vague words: what does "quality" even mean? For her, it's conversion, so as long as your copy stays focused and says the right things, you don't need fancy-pants writing, conversational is enough. Define the goal before you judge the work, otherwise there's no measure.
The messaging cheat sheet (one page)
Most messaging strategists hand over a multi-page document that gets crusty and dusty and never used, the same way bloated 80-page brand guidelines do.
Emelie uses a one-page messaging cheat sheet with seven focus points (audience, offer promise, the desire, and so on), the only thing on her desktop, used every single day as a quick check. The irony of a 15-page doc meant to keep you focused isn't lost on her.
And the answers to those seven points are already inside you, which is why her work is part coaching, part strategy. When someone hires a copywriter, the first thing they do is interview you to "put on your meat suit", everything they're extracting is already in you.
Get your reps in (and detach the emotion)
Emelie's clients' "copy workshops" quietly became coaching calls, because what comes up isn't "I can't write," it's big feelings.
A systemised approach lets you separate the truth from the emotion, so it feels lighter and there's less pressure on the thing.
Copywriting isn't easy, but it's simple, like throwing clay, it's a skill you acquire with reps, not a gift you're born with. (Reps are the theme of half this podcast, including how brand impact builds in Episode 7.)
Revisit and commit
Emelie revisits her messaging after every launch. She repositioned her programme from "clear and clever copy" to "copy that converts in a shorter amount of time" once the data showed how much time her system saved, and it drastically outperformed.
But you also have to commit and hold the vision, especially when you're leading something others don't get yet (she pointed to how I doubled down on offer themes and the Offer Oven when barely anyone was doing it). Pick your shtick, stay the path, and give it time.
Ask yourself this week
Do you nail your messaging before you start writing, or write into a wall?
Are you trying to be clear and clever at once, instead of one then the other?
What's the one-line "shtick" of your offer you could commit to?
About the guest
Emelie Sanders is the messaging and sales copy strategist behind Pass the Queso, teaching business owners to write copy that converts without it taking all day. Work with her inside Stand Up Copy (her messaging and sales copy program, capped, with a waitlist), or come to her free monthly Queso Kikis.
Related episodes
Ep 11: Brand strategy: how to build the foundation of your brand (Branding Pie Part 1)
Ep 30: Why you need brand foundations before a theme
Ep 17: Why theming your offer makes it irresistible
Resources mentioned
Pass the Queso: passthequeso.com
Brand Recipe – my 90-minute session to get your brand strategy clear before the visuals
Come say hi on Instagram: @studiocoya
About the host
I'm Aiza, the brand chef behind Studio Coya, a branding studio with a food-themed twist. I help established coaches, creators and service providers brand their signature offers so their best work looks as good as it actually is, and sells like hotcakes.
